Macroscopic Editor, Progression, and Principles

Deus · August 31, 2024, 7:29am

This is far off still, but I put a lot of thought and effort into this (even my own handmade paint concepts!) for two reason…

Implementation of 3D membranes is sure to draw more attention to that topic.
I’m not preparing for a tidal wave, but I’m predicting a good amount of hype being generated as we begin blazing forward and wrapping up the microbe stage. If this attention grabs the attention of More people with useful skills (thinking of animation especially), it would be nice for them to have a more developed conceptual base to work with.

I think we have a solid “base” from @Buckly’s work revolving around how sculpting the organism can work, but I want to dedicate a bit more thought to limbs, graspers, and mandibles. If these areas, which are typically brushed over and towards a future time, are discussed a bit, we’ll have a solid understanding of how exactly “sculpting” will work, which is foundational to the editor and later stages as a whole. Internal organs and the such can be informed from these larger layers of detail.

A link to the post from Buckly: Macroscopic Editor, Progression, and Principles - #19 by Buckly

Which I will likely be tweaking a bit in some descriptions I have here, but the post essentially is what baseline I am thinking of currently; particularly, with the idea that there are “central metaballs” and “limb metaballs”, and potentially other branching features.

I also want to clarify that I will give extensive commentary on what should be done with metaballs which isn’t necessarily something I am advocating for in the immediate future; in other words, this isn’t me saying “we need to change the prototype into this this and this for it to be fun”, and is more me saying “this is what we will probably need to consider when we get to this stage of development”.

EDITOR STANDARDS AND IDEALS

The macroscopic stage is where a bunch of hype has really centered in the past, and with that, a lot of Thrive’s most ambitious and dream-like concepts focus on. There have been a lot of ideals and sentiments surrounding the editor, the most prominent being…

A Focus on Freeform Sculpting: Similar to Spore, a central idea is that the player will be able to stretch, shrink, expand, and define the torso and limbs of the organism, and will be able to similarly manipulate graspers, pads, mouths, sensory organs, etc. This sculpting will need to accommodate a bit more than Spore did though - I think more specifically, better deal with sculpting creatures with exoskeletons.
Parts Only When Necessary: As a reaction against Spore, Thrive is immensely wary of dealing with things by offering an immense selection of different, pre-made models which are progressive upgrades on related parts. We don’t want to place a premade lobster claw, that looks different from a premade crab claw which has stats that are a downgrade from said lobster claw; we want to place down a grasper/claw, and dynamically warp that generic, basal claw into a lobster claw. In other words, there is a premium placed on variety through customization, not necessarily on variety through various assets.

Various ideas have emerged from these two dominant ideals, and a lot of them on the community forums - as well as previous broad and generic descriptions from the development team years and years ago - of an extensive, free-form metaball sculpting tool in the editor [mind that I am not saying that anyone is explicitly stating this is the de-facto concept, it just might be something that community members might perceive due to the language we use around this topic].

But there are some problems with a very free-reign, sculpting-based editor, which we are seeing currently in the editor prototype itself (obviously unfinished and unpolished, but still useful as a tool to illustrate these points) as well as several previous concepts.

Heavily Dependent on Artistic Capabilities - In order to make a good-looking creature, the player would need to have previous experience with sculpting programs, such as Z-Brush, Blender, and other programs. These programs are either very technical, very simple, or very expensive.
Hard to Nail Down Exactly What You Want - Relating to the above, how can the player create exactly what they want if the tools they are given solely revolve around sculpting metaballs? If they have to use negative metaballs to carve in features like mouths, eyes, etc. how can we offer decent customization without literally giving them a sculpting program to work with?
Impossible to Account for in Development - Furthermore, how can we possibly accommodate all possible wishes and desires on behalf of the player?
Issues with Membrane, Skin, Texture, etc. - Sculpting programs also come with various brushes to create topology textures, which will likely be limited in a game such as Thrive.

It is just really difficult to offer robust game mechanics by just offering sculpting tools, which is why I am very wary of concepts which fully rely on metaballs. We do really need “parts” and rules related to how these parts interact with metaballs, and I do think that isn’t a “restrictive” thing at all to take away from the notoriously unambitious macroscopic stages (/s). In fact, conceptualizing part behavior can really make Thrive pop, while allowing fun gameplay and good looking creatures to emerge naturally.

What Makes a Good Editor?

Contrary to what our immediate gut feeling will tell us, a great editor does a lot of hand-holding in a way that is subtle, intuitive, and flowy enough to allow for players to actually achieve their creativity. So in creating a great macroscopic editor for Thrive, we need to think: how do we give players the tools they need to have direction, and how do we design these tools and rules to provide a good amount of customization?

As much belgium as we give it, and as much as we aim to improve upon it, Spore did a really good job at creating a player-friendly editor. It allowed casual or new players the ability to create something that they have in mind while allowing more capable and skilled players the ability to create art pieces. Some things that come to mind which we should keep in mind in Thrive…

Clearly Defined Torso - The spinal column is the root of everything, and there is nothing which can be placed away from it. This spinal column is easily manipulatable.
Clear Boundaries and Standard - You can obviously rotate the camera, but the creature is always oriented the same direction. There is a clear forward, and though you can make your creature face backwards with mouth placement and limb rotation, the direction of your creature’s movement was always clearly marked.
Everything In Relation to an Axis - You could move the torso along the x and y-axis, but it was always stuck on the same point of the z-axis. This helped center the player. Limbs and other parts always related to this exact point on the z-axis. You may think to yourself “man, I wish I could make my creature wider at some points”, but you never think to yourself “man, I wish I could drag the torso sideways and personally organize all the metaballs to be going sideways”. Note that this doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t offer tools to, say, widen/flatten/round an organism.
Clearly Defined, Yet Versatile Limb Behavior - You could place a segment of a limb and sculpt it however you want, making it a part purely for decoration; and you could make a limb, well, a limb, with a grasper or foot on it. But once you placed a foot or grasper, the limb always acted in a consistent way. Similarly, a limb without a foot/grasper always acted in a consistent way as well.
Set Manipulation Tools Designed to be Approachable - You changed the shape of a limb by moving specific metaball joints. You changed the length of the torso by grabbing at the end of the torso and adding more metaballs. Limb metaballs snapped to other metaballs, and had to be rooted onto the torso. Several things are so on-the-rails, that they end up actually giving the player the stability needed to experiment and customize things.

Though we don’t want an exact replica of Spore’s editor mechanics for various good reasons, I think all the above guidelines are great for usability.

HOW THINGS CAN LOOK IN THRIVE

Assumptions I Am Making

We can make it so that attaching a certain part designates a metaball into a specific “type” of metaball. So for example, we can make placing a grasper on a metaball extension from the torso designate said extension as a limb.
Different designated metaballs can have different textures and graphics applied to them. For example, metaball group A will have a more natural, fleshy connection between different metaballs, while metaball group B will have sharper angles and more shaped lines between segments to give the impression of a exoskeleton

The Main Idea

In as concise a sentence as possible: placing parts will allow metaballs to be designated for specific functions.

The player will start with a slug-like torso, composed of some metaballs locked along a specific z-axis. From there, players will be able to sculpt their organism, apply different membranes, apply metaball appendages onto the torso, and put parts on the torso or the appendage to create specific structures.

By structures, I mean physiological features that we will group together. Structures are related to functional pieces of organisms, and are designated by the placing of specific parts. For example, a “mouth” is a structure designated by, well, the placement of a type of mouth part. An “arm” is a structure designated by the placement of a grasper. A “leg” is a structure designated by the placement of a foot structure.

I think this is inherently a part of Spore as well. Placing a foot on an appendage instantly roots that appendage to the floor and applies animation to it. Placing a mouth steadies a specific part of the organism, generally making the torso less flabby (which is why placing a mouth on your tail makes it much less mobile).

Torso

Your torso will be the default metaball status, locked to a central z-axis akin to Spore. All other parts and segments must attach to a torso. Your torso will also allow space for organs that are found within an organism’s central segment.

Mouth & Head

Placing a mouth on your creature turns the metaball it is placed on into the “head” metaball. Biting, eating, and other functions related to the mouth are related to that metaball. So that is where damage comes from, and where you need to orient yourself to “eat” and such.

You can place it on the bottom or top part of the metaball, or the ends of either your rear or front, or in the center of your body. This won’t really matter to the metaball logic/functionality related to eating and directionality and such. Perhaps placement can affect stat efficiency in eating - for example, a downwards oriented mouth increases the amount of ingestible matter gotten from bottom-feeding at the cost of filter-feeding - but again, functionally, the mouth’s role is to designate a mouth metaball and orient damage and eating.
The placement of a mouth on the posterior end of your creature does not make your creature’s posterior the front (in the editor); in other words, placing your mouth on the metaball farthest from the “forward direction” in the editor won’t flip the movement of your creature.

There will be a few basal mouths to place on your organism to represent different strategies that organisms have. The types of mouth you have available will depend on certain conditions; for example, you will not have access to a jaw if you do not have bones, or having an exoskeleton will be the condition for unlocking arthropodic mandibles. Variations on mouths will all emerge from these basal parts.

Oral Cavity - A literal hole in your creature corresponding to a mouth. The most basal and default mouth. The first mouth to be implemented, which will cover a lot of the earliest lifeforms. Accessible to all life forms
Suction Mouth - Jawless, corresponding to organisms such as lamprey.
Mandible - Arthropodic, locked behind exoskeleton.
Beak - Correspondent to molluscs and some insects.
Jawed Mouth - Correspondent to vertebrates. Locked behind endoskeleton. Versatile vertebrate mouth allowing numerous structures correspondent to other types of mouths, such as beaks.

Presenting a very basic and artistically perfect metaball concept creature with an oral groove; the red designates a metaball designated as a head. Not so disimilar to an Arandapis, a primitive jawless fish.

Oral cavities will be available to all organisms. A suction mouth, jawed mouth, and beak will not be available to organisms with tough other layers, though they will be able to put on mandibles, which can have an immense amount of customization options.

Plating

This mechanic corresponds to membrane selection in the Microbe Stage, and will allow for the creation of features like shells, exoskeletons, and protective bony armor.

Organisms will be able to place hardened plates on their organism through two mechanisms - an individual plate or part, providing some protection, or by designating a certain length of metaballs (or individual metaball) as being completely incased by plating. Part placement allows for decoration and customization and will offer some limited protection. “Brushing” plating on metaball segments will provide insulation from any damage taken from said metaball segments.

I think there can be three types of plating:

Chitinous - This will be a plating option representing arthropodic evolution. Chitin will be the only plating option that allows segmentation, allowing for greater mobility and customization options.
Calcium Carbonate - This will be a plating option for soft-bodied organisms (maybe vertebrates if it doesn’t cause too many issues?). It will create shells akin to those of a mollusc, such as snails, squid, and cuttlefish. Calcium carbonate plating cannot be applied to the head of an organism.
Bony Plating - This will be a plating option available for vertebrate organisms, allowing the creation of features like turtle shells. Customization options can make this more mobile, representing the armor of organisms like crocodilians, or more rigid, representing the armor of organisms like turtles.

Different stats can be applied to each version of casing, with different possibilities. All forms of casing will generally act similarly, just with different appearances and different effects on mobility and protection. But generally, bony plating will offer the least protection but be the most mobile, calcium carbonate will offer the most protection but be the least mobile, while chitinous membrane will be moderately protected and offer average protection.

In the above, light green colored metaballs indicate a regular torso, while the dark brown indicates a metaball painted with calcium carbonate. The lighter brown connections indicate parts around the metaballs which appear as shelled, while the darker green areas around the torso metaball is regular flesh.

The above demonstrates chitin’s segmentation ability - more mobility can result from more segmentation, though it can result in less protection. Note that the lines in the middle segment are just representing the ability to apply different textures to different segments. Chitinous membrane would probably require the most unique handling out of all these proposed features.

Brushing is separate from skin rigidity, which will also make a return. Rigidity when applied to plating will make said plating either more or less nimble/protective.

Limbs/Appendages

Players will be able to place appendages on their organism, similar but broader than the pre-defined legs in Spore’s creature stage (it could literally be placing floating metaballs if that is fine). Appendages by themselves can be utilized to increase surface area, decoration, or very simple weapons, such as stinging parts on a jellyfish.

Placing a foot, fin, grasper, claw, or tarsal claw turns that appendage into a limb, either a foot or an arm (or both depending on the part, but that’s very situational).

The above photo illustrates a fin on the left and an arthropod limb on the right with a tarsal claw; grey indicates the metaballs, green indicates the links between metaballs and decoration, and red indicates the actual parts. This is to illustrate that different types of limbs can have different looks applied to them.

Fin
Tarsal Claw

Sensory Organs

I think sensory organs should generally be parts. The placement of eyes, ears, noses, antenna, etc. can interact with the “mouth” metaball, where placing certain sensory organs closer to it enhances the sensation.

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS

There honestly is a lot more I could go into detail about, but I think the basic idea is present: we can have various types of metaballs, depending on pre-defined groups or the parts placed on the metaballs, and from there, structuring the editor and creating decent organisms is much more feasible for the player.

This is already long enough and I’ve worked on this for a few days - my thought train is starting to fall off the track [apologies if there are incomplete thoughts I forgot about at any points, I jumped around a lot and am quite exhausted!], so before I decide to expand on things, I want to make sure that the base of this idea seems okay to others.

Again, I don’t expect these things to occur soon; I just think this presents an easier way to deal with the macroscopic editor, for reasons listed at the beginning of this post. It would be really nice if we have concepts for what is, in my opinion, the most unique gameplay experience Thrive will provide.

And it would be nice to have actionable concepts instead of broad principles, which allow interested programmers to think “Okay, this entire thing is overwhelming but I can try to program torso behavior, or limbs, or etc.” That way, we can get to a point where the editor seems more like a large task that is a lot to deal with, but atleast we can tackle it methodically, rather than an endless wishlist of our dreams to put all of life into a game. It would personally mean a lot to me if we can get to that point, and I am sure such a feeling would reverberate throughout the community.

If nothing else, hopefully this allows us to further clarify what concepts don’t work, and spring forward from there. If these principles are solid, then I will go further into talking about how part customization and progression can actually look like.

So I would love to hear you guys’ thoughts - after I wake up.