Multicellular stage progression mechanics

Yesterday we had a discussion on Discord about a possible mechanic to progress through the multicellular stage. It was initially suggested by @C009, so I’m opening this post to discuss the mechanics better and have some feedback.

The idea was initially suggested as (from @C009):

[…]
Basically, I’ve come up with giving multicellular editor a scale slider (or maybe better a precise number selector).
Placing cells on hex would still be the same on bigger scales, but what would change is actual amount of cells in that one hex. So, say, the scale = 1, which is the scale at the beggining of the stage, would make everything be the same as is, but scale = 2 would have each cell sort of multiplied by some amount, yet still clumped together in the same hex position.
[…]
I was thinking of increasing scale making game more difficult in some way, so there is somewhat constant difficulty if the player aims to grow more, but actually it could maybe do opposite: make growing bigger easier via slider rather than placing a ton of cells that would impact performane
And yeah, scaling would also come with LOD in my idea, so it doesn’t smelt any CPUs

Who has also provided some cool concept diagrams:

Personally, I really like the idea, and it gave me the inspiration to analyze the technical details to implement this.

How would it work?

My idea of this is quite consistent with the timeline shown in the images, which results in a smooth progression from simple colonies, to tissues, to multicellular. So, the question is: how would the LOD system work?

Colonies

Initially, the colony looks like the current multicellular phase; as soon as we proceed, we consider the cells as groups or clumps of cells. As the scale increments, we start treating the cells as discs or points, or as an Alpha-Shape connected together through a graph that can be computed with a Delaunay Triangulation. The resulting mass of cells can also be efficiently simulated as simple soft bodies (like suggested here) without necessarily implementing destructible mechanics that would cause potential bugs and programming headaches.

Other organisms

Other organisms, such as single-celled ones, would be scaled down and eventually reduced to simple primitives or even non-simulated points floating through the environment that may be used as food. These could be treated as point masses as we scale further.

Dirt and particles

Like the other organisms, these would be scaled down as well, and eventually become point-like structures.

The physics of point-like structures could also push the player to develop digestive structures to capture and digest this debris.

Editor

The editor starts with the hex editor we already have, and then turns more “continuous”, where the player can “draw” the tissues they have developed in the early phases. Eventually, the properties of these tissues may be modified with a system of sliders or pickers.

Transition to macroscopic

At this point, the transition to macroscopic would be much smoother, but it is still unclear how would it happen technically. I was thinking of calculating a 3D Alpha-Shape of the graph used in the multicellular simulation, and then transition to a mesh-based simulation and editor for the macroscopic.

Conclusion

I really like this concept, and I think it would be nice to discuss on this both over the technical and gameplay related aspects. Thank you.

3 Likes

I do think this would be cool, and believe me, I’ve had the thought of “man, this mechanic would be so much cooler if we had slightly larger microscopic multicellular organisms in our scope” when creating other Multicellular concepts.

The issue for me is that I really am worried about how much more work this would need for a portion of the game that would probably be like an hour or so at the most before becoming fully Macroscopic. The Microbe Stage editor itself is extremely elaborate, and the Macroscopic Stage Editor will be a goliath. But atleast the Microbe Stage Editor mechanics are used for 3-4 hours, and the Macroscopic Stage Editor mechanics will be utilized for like 6+ hours of gameplay - this has comparable complexity, and would be utilized for a much shorter time before transitioning to the Macroscopic Stage Editor.

So ultimately, my opinion is: if we want to make this worth all the additional time, manpower, and resources needed to make this tiny sliver of the overall playthrough work, we would have to go all in to a really smooth transition between the Macroscopic and Multicellular Stages. And that seems like an extremely difficult task.

If this is a task the team as a whole is willing to commit to, even with all the time and resources needed, then I’d absolutely support it and I do think it can work and be really fun. But considering prior discussions, I’m not sure how well this works with our timeline.

I am very open to hearing others discuss this.

2 Likes

My opinion is still the same that while all the ideas about making the switch to macroscopic smoother are nice, they are ultimately an extreme amount of work for how big of a portion of the game they will be (like Deus said).

Like do we want to make 3-4 intermediate “stages” that are each played for like 1-2 generations or do we want to like totally finish macroscopic as I think these two things are very comparable in scope and needed development effort? I personally vote for making macroscopic ASAP as that will be the visually most interesting stage to an average gamer and thus is a chance to make Thrive more widely appealing. Whereas only hardcore Thrive or biology fans would want way more in-depth macroscopic transition.

5 Likes